~Program suit coloration
~Program memory capacities and capabilities
~General Tesler's arms. ;)
~Program cloaks, sashes, jackets, and armor.
~ Link's true nature and other items.
~ Our various projects.
~ Program mentality.
~ Program life-functions (possibilities such as breathing, containing energy, etc.).
And tons more! NOTE: That this conversation will be added to as it continues on dA. ;)
You can follow LucrataNexarii on twitter here: >> https://twitter.com/LucrataNexarii
Thank you for having taken the time, long ago, to offer your thoughts. The interaction and interplay of ideas is always good to see among fellow fans. From artist to artist, I know it's led to plenty of amusing or thoughtful notions.
My first impressions over 'Identity' was that the 'glitches' induced by lack of Beck's lack of junction to his disc were closer to the literal term - a short-term fault or effect. while Tron explains what will occur as one string of commentary or caution, it doesn't necessitate that what may exactly induce permanent amnesia later on is directly the same matter... After all, Programs are 1) never separate from their discs for long, and 2) if the disc is disconnected/absent from the Program, there is a good chance that said Program is no longer existing (possiblity of User/Flynn's oversight?).
My thought is more that the Program-Disc connection, not just in terms of the sensory-processing/embedding of memories, but also in the conscious mediation with the Program, is a very complex process. It may be some Grid-function level bit of efficiency to minimize this 'weight' where possible. Or, it might be some other factor entirely... If losing one's disc weren't a severe disadvantage, would there be the possibility that interchange of discs among Programs could cause all manner of subtle chaos on the Grid? Could it cause both a psychological/mental and functional-categorical set of greater faults among Programs and their ability to act cohesively?
On consideration, perhaps it's not an oversight - maybe just a (potentially cruel) practicality.
Moving on to the topic of Beck's trust, it's clear that Kobol had his gathering of strays down to a carefully choreographed process. Beck gained a trust forged by 'life-saving' - ironically, one that somewhat mirrors Cyrus' own actions toward Tron - although she did note that this trust was fragile, and easily counteracted by violent or authoritative intent or action.
I see this as indicating two things: one, that a Program's reaction to others via emotional reading precedes the active need for recollected information; it's an immediate and conscious process, as is judgement of trustworthiness or safety/aggression responses. Further, though suggestion obviously has a strong influence on the near-Stray Program, it might (in my hypothesis) leave open to certain collective psychological effects influenced by city/state-scale elements.... By this, I mean that the largest collective, recognized influence on a city might have some cumulative, if subtle, effect on Programs. A kind of subconscious cohesion or effect. Beck was called a soldier, and without even making note of the military - despite his huge hate of the military, especially for the outright murder of his good friend Bodhi right in front of him - or any other further presence of them that we'd seen in the episode, Beck accepted easily that he was a soldier, and going to be returned to the military for proper treatment. There is also that killing was not in his nature, shown on many occasions; this would/should also undermine his sudden acceptance of that title or function.
(A side-point to this is that in Tesler's nightmare, Argon is seen as reverting back to it's usual blue/User glow, where formerly it was the crimson of the military. It may just indicate his loss of power, but the fact that cities and areas do in some cases have a collective 'circuit-hue' points to some factor of the Grid itself registering a collective presence or effect. Further, Tesler does remark at one time, "I am the state!" and this may further hint at his direct connection to this process.)
I recognize that Beck had been in (essentially) military training for some time under Tron's tutelage, that he was being directed to what was explained clearly as a military beacon - yet, other factors seen in Argon also point to a certain oddity. The 'bloodlust' seen in the arena's attending Programs does seem rather strange to me, especially that such a high proportion of innocent Programs were being sent to be (presumably) killed rather mercilessly by superior opponents, and further that as time goes on, chances go up that any attending Program would have even marginal ties to someone who had been wrongly convicted or sent away. I assume that crime had spiked since the military's appearance, and I wager that survivalism among Programs had also become quite pronounced - such as in 'The Reward,' where Programs were turning on one another seemingly left and right, for the sake of one vehicle (quite an interesting vehicle, but even if it were to come into someone's possession, that Program would likely become the target of ire, threats, theft, or worse). Still further, it's not known whether Programs are forced to attend the Games, and if they were, they'd likely have to blend in with the crowd or risk being singled-out by the military as further 'volunteers' for the Games, or just Programs to be placed under closer general scrutiny.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
I had a couple of thoughts regarding Programs indoctrinated or incorporated into the military, but I assume those can wait for later. They are also worked into part of a short standalone comic sequence I had in mind, of a little discussion between Link and Able.
Thank you for your patience, Nimbus. Hopefully my thoughts here have been relatively cohesive. Take care.
nimbus2224 Dec 25, 2013 Hobbyist General Artist
I agree. Fellow Programs have such great insight into the Tron-universe.
Hmmm, I agree with you on that. I will (attempt) to play on what happens when a Program is given a different identity disc--not only lack of previous memory stores, but unconsciousness of proper, programmed function. (you may know who I am hinting about ) It really causes much thought towards how Clu could have used just mere separation of Programs from their discs in order to achieve the 'desired' effect.
Though I also find it strange that Beck was so willing to accept Kobo's claim of him being part of the Occupation, I also see his abrupt change of motive brought on by outside forces. Beck put the staff to Tron's head, a chilling sight to be sure, but when Tron seemed to focus his attention on Beck, reassuring him of his true name and personality, Beck withdrew and said, "I'm not a killer. I don't derezz Programs." or something to that effect. That small segment leads me to believe that, despite the enormous loss of memory on Beck's side, Tron was somehow able to re-establish basic chunks of it (such as beliefs and perhaps even basic motives).
I agree, discs seem to serve the function of not only memory storage but basic motivations and beliefs. Once taken away the memories appear to disintegrate, quickly followed by these personality traits. But that's just me (and perhaps I am misunderstanding your thoughts. ). Such an effortless crime of stealing a Program's disc is definitely one way Programs are lacking where the Users are not. I can imagine, during the earlier times, Tron's task force was also focused on preventing thefts like this from occurring to keep the Grid from descending into total chaos. Though, reasons for stealing another Program's disc were probably also less inherent at that time too, simply due to the lack of a fear-imposing force in need of multitudes of soldiers. :L
Ah! Love the connection you made between Cyrus' actions towards Tron and Lux and Kobol's towards Beck. Great connection! Also, that interesting connection between Tesler's dream and the color schemes of the cities. I've never thought of it that way before but I can definitely see where this comes into play. Some examples including the 1010 Club's color scheme changing after it was taken over by Occupation personnel (I think that's what it's called, right? ), the drastic change in colors of Tron City, and even Mara's bright orange hair. I think you've pointed out a good fact: that the colors really do represent alliances and programming. And, likewise, mindset and thought processing.
Yes, the Programs' reactions to the Games is a complex and troubling one. It is truly strange how Programs dissenting from the rule of the Occupation, like Zed and Mara, still attended public displays of violence such as the contest between Tesler and the Renegade. (Link, though, did not, which I find very peculiar. ) After reading Betrayal, I got the impression that the Games in that time (before the Occupation) were more of a contest of skills, much like the Olympics. This would explain why we see common games such as lightcycle races or disc battles an enjoyable passtime for many Programs. Like they were training or mirroring what they saw at the Games in order to possibly compete or just to have fun. Betrayal made it very clear how the meaning of the Games changed directly from exhibition of skill to a way of control. Clu began by decreeing that all losers of the Games would be derezzed, which was really a quite violent prescription because usually there could only be one victor. It is also interesting to see that Tron competed repeatedly in the Games, almost seeming to teach or inspire other Programs on how to fight without mortally wounding or killing the other combatant. In fact, it was Tron who first stumbled upon Guards derezzing loosing Programs that he had defeated in the Games but spared.
In that way (and all that history ), I think Clu started spreading fear through the Programs. To win now was to be a true champion and gain lots of fame and respect from others. Whereas before, anyone could compete just for fun and walk away without a scratch. Mob mentality may also have something to do with it too. Not many Programs have the awareness to step back and say, "This is wrong. This is not what these games were meant for." like Link did. They really are very dependant on each other and to be the odd one out (like Tron clearly became) spelled destruction. It was unnervingly clear in Betrayal that Clu instantly made Tron a larger target than Flynn (who chose not to act upon the 'small' matters like game-derezzing) just through his reaction to what was going on with the Games. You are absolutely correct, the Games are like a representation of what's going on in the Grid.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
A comic!? That sounds fantastic!! I cannot wait! And, as always, I absolutely love our discussions! They are so awesome and thought provoking! You do such a good job bringing all these facts and ideas into play from Uprising and through them, proving your point. I feel like you and so many other fans have such great perceptions on the Grid-universe, it's spectacular! I honestly couldn't be as intrigued with Tron and his stories and world as I am now, without you all.
While I do not know specifically who my fellow Programs may be, it's good to see that you have a great gratitude toward all of us, and I see your idea of keeping this list of compatriots is a good way to link us together, though we may individually not have any contact with one another. I see it as a good sort of network, functioning to bring together both ideas expressed in new artwork, stories and expression, but also a gratitude toward one another for what we collectively influence and build. We don't necessarily have to know of one another in order to bring about something great.
My first impressions over 'Identity' was that the 'glitches' induced by lack of Beck's lack of junction to his disc were closer to the literal term - a short-term fault or effect. while Tron explains what will occur as one string of commentary or caution, it doesn't necessitate that what may exactly induce permanent amnesia later on is directly the same matter... After all, Programs are 1) never separate from their discs for long, and 2) if the disc is disconnected/absent from the Program, there is a good chance that said Program is no longer existing (possiblity of User/Flynn's oversight?).
My thought is more that the Program-Disc connection, not just in terms of the sensory-processing/embedding of memories, but also in the conscious mediation with the Program, is a very complex process. It may be some Grid-function level bit of efficiency to minimize this 'weight' where possible. Or, it might be some other factor entirely... If losing one's disc weren't a severe disadvantage, would there be the possibility that interchange of discs among Programs could cause all manner of subtle chaos on the Grid? Could it cause both a psychological/mental and functional-categorical set of greater faults among Programs and their ability to act cohesively?
On consideration, perhaps it's not an oversight - maybe just a (potentially cruel) practicality.
Moving on to the topic of Beck's trust, it's clear that Kobol had his gathering of strays down to a carefully choreographed process. Beck gained a trust forged by 'life-saving' - ironically, one that somewhat mirrors Cyrus' own actions toward Tron - although she did note that this trust was fragile, and easily counteracted by violent or authoritative intent or action.
I see this as indicating two things: one, that a Program's reaction to others via emotional reading precedes the active need for recollected information; it's an immediate and conscious process, as is judgement of trustworthiness or safety/aggression responses. Further, though suggestion obviously has a strong influence on the near-Stray Program, it might (in my hypothesis) leave open to certain collective psychological effects influenced by city/state-scale elements.... By this, I mean that the largest collective, recognized influence on a city might have some cumulative, if subtle, effect on Programs. A kind of subconscious cohesion or effect. Beck was called a soldier, and without even making note of the military - despite his huge hate of the military, especially for the outright murder of his good friend Bodhi right in front of him - or any other further presence of them that we'd seen in the episode, Beck accepted easily that he was a soldier, and going to be returned to the military for proper treatment. There is also that killing was not in his nature, shown on many occasions; this would/should also undermine his sudden acceptance of that title or function.
(A side-point to this is that in Tesler's nightmare, Argon is seen as reverting back to it's usual blue/User glow, where formerly it was the crimson of the military. It may just indicate his loss of power, but the fact that cities and areas do in some cases have a collective 'circuit-hue' points to some factor of the Grid itself registering a collective presence or effect. Further, Tesler does remark at one time, "I am the state!" and this may further hint at his direct connection to this process.)
I recognize that Beck had been in (essentially) military training for some time under Tron's tutelage, that he was being directed to what was explained clearly as a military beacon - yet, other factors seen in Argon also point to a certain oddity. The 'bloodlust' seen in the arena's attending Programs does seem rather strange to me, especially that such a high proportion of innocent Programs were being sent to be (presumably) killed rather mercilessly by superior opponents, and further that as time goes on, chances go up that any attending Program would have even marginal ties to someone who had been wrongly convicted or sent away. I assume that crime had spiked since the military's appearance, and I wager that survivalism among Programs had also become quite pronounced - such as in 'The Reward,' where Programs were turning on one another seemingly left and right, for the sake of one vehicle (quite an interesting vehicle, but even if it were to come into someone's possession, that Program would likely become the target of ire, threats, theft, or worse). Still further, it's not known whether Programs are forced to attend the Games, and if they were, they'd likely have to blend in with the crowd or risk being singled-out by the military as further 'volunteers' for the Games, or just Programs to be placed under closer general scrutiny.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
I had a couple of thoughts regarding Programs indoctrinated or incorporated into the military, but I assume those can wait for later. They are also worked into part of a short standalone comic sequence I had in mind, of a little discussion between Link and Able.
Thank you for your patience, Nimbus. Hopefully my thoughts here have been relatively cohesive. Take care.
nimbus2224 Dec 25, 2013 Hobbyist General Artist
I agree. Fellow Programs have such great insight into the Tron-universe.
Hmmm, I agree with you on that. I will (attempt) to play on what happens when a Program is given a different identity disc--not only lack of previous memory stores, but unconsciousness of proper, programmed function. (you may know who I am hinting about ) It really causes much thought towards how Clu could have used just mere separation of Programs from their discs in order to achieve the 'desired' effect.
Though I also find it strange that Beck was so willing to accept Kobo's claim of him being part of the Occupation, I also see his abrupt change of motive brought on by outside forces. Beck put the staff to Tron's head, a chilling sight to be sure, but when Tron seemed to focus his attention on Beck, reassuring him of his true name and personality, Beck withdrew and said, "I'm not a killer. I don't derezz Programs." or something to that effect. That small segment leads me to believe that, despite the enormous loss of memory on Beck's side, Tron was somehow able to re-establish basic chunks of it (such as beliefs and perhaps even basic motives).
I agree, discs seem to serve the function of not only memory storage but basic motivations and beliefs. Once taken away the memories appear to disintegrate, quickly followed by these personality traits. But that's just me (and perhaps I am misunderstanding your thoughts. ). Such an effortless crime of stealing a Program's disc is definitely one way Programs are lacking where the Users are not. I can imagine, during the earlier times, Tron's task force was also focused on preventing thefts like this from occurring to keep the Grid from descending into total chaos. Though, reasons for stealing another Program's disc were probably also less inherent at that time too, simply due to the lack of a fear-imposing force in need of multitudes of soldiers. :L
Ah! Love the connection you made between Cyrus' actions towards Tron and Lux and Kobol's towards Beck. Great connection! Also, that interesting connection between Tesler's dream and the color schemes of the cities. I've never thought of it that way before but I can definitely see where this comes into play. Some examples including the 1010 Club's color scheme changing after it was taken over by Occupation personnel (I think that's what it's called, right? ), the drastic change in colors of Tron City, and even Mara's bright orange hair. I think you've pointed out a good fact: that the colors really do represent alliances and programming. And, likewise, mindset and thought processing.
Yes, the Programs' reactions to the Games is a complex and troubling one. It is truly strange how Programs dissenting from the rule of the Occupation, like Zed and Mara, still attended public displays of violence such as the contest between Tesler and the Renegade. (Link, though, did not, which I find very peculiar. ) After reading Betrayal, I got the impression that the Games in that time (before the Occupation) were more of a contest of skills, much like the Olympics. This would explain why we see common games such as lightcycle races or disc battles an enjoyable passtime for many Programs. Like they were training or mirroring what they saw at the Games in order to possibly compete or just to have fun. Betrayal made it very clear how the meaning of the Games changed directly from exhibition of skill to a way of control. Clu began by decreeing that all losers of the Games would be derezzed, which was really a quite violent prescription because usually there could only be one victor. It is also interesting to see that Tron competed repeatedly in the Games, almost seeming to teach or inspire other Programs on how to fight without mortally wounding or killing the other combatant. In fact, it was Tron who first stumbled upon Guards derezzing loosing Programs that he had defeated in the Games but spared.
In that way (and all that history ), I think Clu started spreading fear through the Programs. To win now was to be a true champion and gain lots of fame and respect from others. Whereas before, anyone could compete just for fun and walk away without a scratch. Mob mentality may also have something to do with it too. Not many Programs have the awareness to step back and say, "This is wrong. This is not what these games were meant for." like Link did. They really are very dependant on each other and to be the odd one out (like Tron clearly became) spelled destruction. It was unnervingly clear in Betrayal that Clu instantly made Tron a larger target than Flynn (who chose not to act upon the 'small' matters like game-derezzing) just through his reaction to what was going on with the Games. You are absolutely correct, the Games are like a representation of what's going on in the Grid.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
A comic!? That sounds fantastic!! I cannot wait! And, as always, I absolutely love our discussions! They are so awesome and thought provoking! You do such a good job bringing all these facts and ideas into play from Uprising and through them, proving your point. I feel like you and so many other fans have such great perceptions on the Grid-universe, it's spectacular! I honestly couldn't be as intrigued with Tron and his stories and world as I am now, without you all.
While I do not know specifically who my fellow Programs may be, it's good to see that you have a great gratitude toward all of us, and I see your idea of keeping this list of compatriots is a good way to link us together, though we may individually not have any contact with one another. I see it as a good sort of network, functioning to bring together both ideas expressed in new artwork, stories and expression, but also a gratitude toward one another for what we collectively influence and build. We don't necessarily have to know of one another in order to bring about something great.
LucrataNexarii Dec 26, 2013
One of my first inclinations is that a vital part of the User-Grid interface is that some vital aspects of personality (or deep allegiance) of Programs must be inherently visible or readable to Users. While a Program might choose to go against their 'colour conventions,' and act a certain way out of choice, Users could still discern a certain gauge of safety or reliability simply based from what they visually see from an individual. Whether these aspects are readily visible to Programs, or whether they have a bias for or against one another based on colour is unclear. Certainly they don't seem to discriminate as to secondary-circuit colour. As I see it, the primary colours and immediate secondary colours have certain distinct (though abstracted) qualities; this can also be read into devices and inanimate objects. I have the inclination that this fine edge of influence may have varying degrees among Programs, but that it remains fundamentally important to who and what they are in some way.
The Uprising-era Programs have both primary and secondary circuits; this may have further ramifications. Further, it seems habitual for certain classes of Programs to have 'overcoats' relative to their functions: many Medical-function Programs have these concealing coats, as do many Military Programs. Pavel's true circuit formations do not seem to show (though here is a hint of that just at the base of his neck along the start of his shoulders or trapezius; Telser is another Program who seems to wear a sort of armour or overcoat to a certain degree, but his artificial arms/gauntlets are another matter still). Pavel's coat is more similar to that of regular guards, yet still unique and somewhat more complex. Tesler's coat takes this one step further. Whether these are their designated function/individual circuits is unknown, but I wager that they may not be; after all, Paige's circuitry is entirely different from what she exhibited while still functioning as a Medic…
To another end, despite how important a matter such as maintenance/mechanic-work is to the functionality of any given city/area, it seems only that certain classes of function wear coats that distinguish them as a certain functional type. Medics and Military are among this; certain markings I've also noted on Shaw, which may denote research personnel. All of the Programs of Able's garage seem to have fairly general circuit patterns, ones seen repeated among other common Programs about. (Unique cases are clear, such as Zed and Mara, who exhibit some of the most unique circuit-patterns, notably Zed's, I find. So also to Mara's complex suit-lines of her forearms, something curiously mirrored only by Tesler; personally, I subconsciously read that complex arm-pattern literally as 'complex influence; an ability to change directions of operating areas,' a parallel to Mara as the choice of director of the Garage, versus General Telser, who is clearly the leading figure among the Military's presence.) As bit of humour over Programs and their specific appearance, I was wondering when first looking at the designs of the Programs of Able's garage, or of Programs in general, whether their patterns weren't somehow the equivalent of all of them running about in their mechanic's overalls. Having viewed 'The Reward,' noticing Tesler's remark of 'Mechanics??' didn't help this view.![]()
Of Tesler: despite his arrogance, and even bloodthirsty side, a part of me wonders at why the secondary colour of Telser's circuits appears to be blue, and the section within his collar is green (only there after Paige's flashbacks; this coincides with his artificial arms as well). I understand that Black Guard suits also exhibit both blue and green circuitry, and that makes me wonder what degree of Telser's coat or armour might in some way be artificial segments of himself, or just armor. Even the term 'artificial' (or prosthetic) may not exactly be linear as to what we may consider it of ourselves; the same may also apply to the coat/armor division as per a Program's coded function, or converted function. In fact, despite the Games and their fatal implications, Tron notes that Beck 'survived with all of his limbs intact' - it makes me wonder if Programs, if sufficiently damaged yet still not derezzed, might be expelled simply due to them being 'poor game' - and hence, why we don't see any other Programs with damaged or prosthetic limbs commonly about(something I wanted to address a little in the main comic idea of mine). Also, with the plethora of medical response units which Argon has, accidents must happen, and Programs must be injured. Medical technologies are not something we are given much insight into. How Rasquet manages his damaged, painful arm is another matter.
Back to Tesler, and circuit-color: Taking Bodhi as an example, red secondary colour would seem to imply a certain individualism among Programs, also perhaps a headstrong or arrogant side, but those factors can also be played toward a positive end. Bodhi was held in strong and esteemed regard by virtually all of the Garage, and seemed to work toward inspiring them all in some way (or maybe just challenging them in a good way), not to mention that he developed the Recoder baton. In a similar inversion, despite Telser's nature, something of his blue secondary colour hints to me that he can't be so flat or featureless a character. There might be some way that his own arrogance and type of self-centredness might actually play for the better, given that he's the sole most authoritarian and powerful figure seen in Uprising, equal perhaps to Dyson, yet eclipsed only by CLU. As Tesler was assigned to Argon, and quite possessive of it (or his authority thereof, and thus also his own importance), and with Dyson hinting that Argon is somehow expendable, distant, and quaint, it leaves me curious if Tesler might have one day been a dark benefactor.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
And yes, that idea for a comic of mine. There is one main idea, and a few side-plans. Only the main part is really contiguous, while the latter smaller ones are more an aspect of humour. Of the main part, I could say that it really lacks anything of full substance as storytelling goes; literally it's focus is over Link, and the small Programs of the Grid who are perceived to have no importance; it's literally about the subtle scale of the Occupation, and those who are powerless to do much over it. Most of the said comic idea developed due to my thoughts regarding Link's own perspectives, and also how interaction or regard over those would take place; this is complicated by two key factors: one, that Link seems to have a strange or incomplete perspective - simultaneously insightful, yet depicted as outwardly foolish or slow - second, there is a critical division to the perspectives that a Program would have, versus our own User-insights or patterns of thinking. To that end, I do have an OC (oh how I shudder at that term; a tic of mine) idea, one who was fashioned out of need for a Program with a reasonable proxy to my own manner of thinking, but also who would have the patience and incentive to deal with Link in the first place. The comic mostly explores the perspectives of Link, and also the oppressive nature of the Occupation and it's effects on the freedom of the Programs under it, how those are changing Argon, and other assorted difficulties of Programs' own nature under such conditions.
Secondary comic ideas are more for humour, or just as thought-exercises which lead along amusing lines. A significant challenge to me is actually how Link may very well think outside the box, or what shape his thinking might take due to aspects of his own odd programming. It's also a partial jest at myself for what I do or do not understand - and I could see Link easily relating to my lack of understanding…. In fact, a part of such ideas was kind of a counter for how many times in mind I've been 'pwned' by my own trail of thought relative to Link or his circumstance, 'Ping!' Unfortunately, I don't always have access to a notebook or my sketchbook to capture such moments. Though they'd range somewhere around 30 points or more, most I don't aptly recall. Ah, well… There's another point in his favour.
Ah, and before I forget, as to the discussions between yourself and I, I've had a joking idea to want to draw a quick comic of two Grid-mages summoning great walls of text, battling/debating like two clashing tidal waves. Amusingly, I could see my own power being channeled via Link's own obliviousness or supposed stupidity, and my lack of understanding of him thereof. It's literally powered by 'Oblivion.'
Thanks again for the thought, Nimbus! Hopefully it's been a good read. It's certainly quite the compendium of ideas. I'd almost say that referring to any of these essays on Twitter would be a way to inform of others of our perspectives in a more succinct matter, if required.
nimbus2224 Feb 4, 2014
Exactly. Just like all those involved with Tron have no idea of the massive plotting we Programs are capable of/are taking part in.
I totally see what you're saying about the differentiating, dash of colors most Programs have. Like with Kobol and Gult both having red as their "secondary color" and it appearing as they were derezzed. Some sources quickly generalize warm colors vs. cool colors vs. white as separating 'bad guys' and 'good guys' from Users. But I like that there are some discrepancies in what we see in Uprising. Whereas some designate white 'accents' as a symbol of Usership, Tron, who clearly bears white markings is definitely not a User. Which brings to light an implication that I found intriguing when you piqued my interest in Link a while ago. Link's 'accents' are also white, in correlation with his constructs. Therefore, the point you made about a patternization of 'color accents' and deeper-designation are probably correct.
I agree, the various cloth-like cloaks or overcoat-like Program clothing are very interesting. I sometimes wonder if all Programs are capable of 'constructing' (if that is indeed how these cloaks are made) a cloak or overcoat onto his or herself much like a helmet is constructed from the pre-existing suit. There also appear to be several armor types, mostly associated with the Security Programs. Ranging from 'Drone' Programs seem to also have those coat-tails and a rigid collar, Black Guards with their harder, more armored shoulder and chest areas, to the strange plating and ribbing of Tron's 'blacksuit'. Yet another thing I suddenly feel the need to categorize.
Ah yes, you are right. Paige's suit circuitry does change when she goes from medic to soldier. Perhaps Programs can change their suit or clothing as the time requires it? Or perhaps it evolves or strengthens itself over time due to growing need. Hmmm....
That is an interesting connection between Mara and Tesler. Or perhaps the markings in certain areas display a certain amount of intense usage of that area, which would correlate between both cases of Programs using their hands or arms excessively. But then again, don't they all use their arms excessively. (You can probably tell I am slowly draining my brain for the night. ) Haha! I thought the same thing with the mechanics and their overalls! I also cannot stop seeing those three vertical filaments on Able's suit as a tie. Likewise, I kinda saw the single emphasized or detailed, angular side of a Security Program's (or Clu's) suits as being almost like a military sash. With Tron's suit I cannot grasp anything though. He really does stick out like a sore thumb amidst all the Flynn-Programs. Almost alien-like in some ways; with the smooth, angular helmet and the subtly detailed armor plating....Very strange and very uncommon. It's something I keep in mind when beginning concepts of Yori. I figure that the Programs end up displaying the minds of their makers in more ways than physical similarities.
I kinda always figured that the different colors in Tesler's arms showed the amount of augmentations done to the limbs. But, yes, I agree it is strange to see these little differences in color scheme. I noted that Dyson also has a few green dots on his suit. I cannot tell if this is due to the wing-chute his is wearing or if it is indeed some strange discrepancy to the usual colors of his suit.
I agree, apart from the various rates of healing exhibited by Programs, and the simple first aid-ish sort of practices (removing foreign bodies, patching or covering, 'disinfecting' via handheld device) I assume everything else is done by disc.... literally. I have the feeling that only certain Programs can actually access the areas of the disc to repair damage.
Yes, I see what you mean. (I can't remember if I said this already) I kind of see the Games, especially the older games, as the Olympics. With Programs from each city competing for sport and non-lethally. Like the Club, I can see the Games as another way to 'hang out' on the Grid. I also feel like the number of Colosseums were fewer in number before the Occupation/Coup. I think as the Occupation gained strength, some Programs may have even volunteered to compete in order to wiggle their way into a position of power or safety withing Clu's forces. (Or to avoid Repurposing. ) Perhaps it is these Programs that become part of the Black Guard and then go on to compete further in the Games. 0__0 Continuing the cycle.
Your comic idea sounds awesome!! I can't wait to see it!! Yeah, I kinda dislike the term OC too. It always makes me think of OCD for some reason. I tend to just use "my character" whenever the need arises and then explain later. I've always felt like a great deal of Link's and some of the other Programs' appeal are because they are relatable to how we often feel. Though through banding together and staying true and taking action they become a force to be reckoned with. Haha! I love your relation to Link and his character. Too funny!
Haha! Grid-mages! Or perhaps like the Greybeards of Skyrim, blasting Ro Dahs! at each other...Poor Link scrambling around in confusion and panic beneath...somehow getting away completely unscathed! Your idea sounds hilarious!
One of my first inclinations is that a vital part of the User-Grid interface is that some vital aspects of personality (or deep allegiance) of Programs must be inherently visible or readable to Users. While a Program might choose to go against their 'colour conventions,' and act a certain way out of choice, Users could still discern a certain gauge of safety or reliability simply based from what they visually see from an individual. Whether these aspects are readily visible to Programs, or whether they have a bias for or against one another based on colour is unclear. Certainly they don't seem to discriminate as to secondary-circuit colour. As I see it, the primary colours and immediate secondary colours have certain distinct (though abstracted) qualities; this can also be read into devices and inanimate objects. I have the inclination that this fine edge of influence may have varying degrees among Programs, but that it remains fundamentally important to who and what they are in some way.
The Uprising-era Programs have both primary and secondary circuits; this may have further ramifications. Further, it seems habitual for certain classes of Programs to have 'overcoats' relative to their functions: many Medical-function Programs have these concealing coats, as do many Military Programs. Pavel's true circuit formations do not seem to show (though here is a hint of that just at the base of his neck along the start of his shoulders or trapezius; Telser is another Program who seems to wear a sort of armour or overcoat to a certain degree, but his artificial arms/gauntlets are another matter still). Pavel's coat is more similar to that of regular guards, yet still unique and somewhat more complex. Tesler's coat takes this one step further. Whether these are their designated function/individual circuits is unknown, but I wager that they may not be; after all, Paige's circuitry is entirely different from what she exhibited while still functioning as a Medic…
To another end, despite how important a matter such as maintenance/mechanic-work is to the functionality of any given city/area, it seems only that certain classes of function wear coats that distinguish them as a certain functional type. Medics and Military are among this; certain markings I've also noted on Shaw, which may denote research personnel. All of the Programs of Able's garage seem to have fairly general circuit patterns, ones seen repeated among other common Programs about. (Unique cases are clear, such as Zed and Mara, who exhibit some of the most unique circuit-patterns, notably Zed's, I find. So also to Mara's complex suit-lines of her forearms, something curiously mirrored only by Tesler; personally, I subconsciously read that complex arm-pattern literally as 'complex influence; an ability to change directions of operating areas,' a parallel to Mara as the choice of director of the Garage, versus General Telser, who is clearly the leading figure among the Military's presence.) As bit of humour over Programs and their specific appearance, I was wondering when first looking at the designs of the Programs of Able's garage, or of Programs in general, whether their patterns weren't somehow the equivalent of all of them running about in their mechanic's overalls. Having viewed 'The Reward,' noticing Tesler's remark of 'Mechanics??' didn't help this view.
Of Tesler: despite his arrogance, and even bloodthirsty side, a part of me wonders at why the secondary colour of Telser's circuits appears to be blue, and the section within his collar is green (only there after Paige's flashbacks; this coincides with his artificial arms as well). I understand that Black Guard suits also exhibit both blue and green circuitry, and that makes me wonder what degree of Telser's coat or armour might in some way be artificial segments of himself, or just armor. Even the term 'artificial' (or prosthetic) may not exactly be linear as to what we may consider it of ourselves; the same may also apply to the coat/armor division as per a Program's coded function, or converted function. In fact, despite the Games and their fatal implications, Tron notes that Beck 'survived with all of his limbs intact' - it makes me wonder if Programs, if sufficiently damaged yet still not derezzed, might be expelled simply due to them being 'poor game' - and hence, why we don't see any other Programs with damaged or prosthetic limbs commonly about(something I wanted to address a little in the main comic idea of mine). Also, with the plethora of medical response units which Argon has, accidents must happen, and Programs must be injured. Medical technologies are not something we are given much insight into. How Rasquet manages his damaged, painful arm is another matter.
Back to Tesler, and circuit-color: Taking Bodhi as an example, red secondary colour would seem to imply a certain individualism among Programs, also perhaps a headstrong or arrogant side, but those factors can also be played toward a positive end. Bodhi was held in strong and esteemed regard by virtually all of the Garage, and seemed to work toward inspiring them all in some way (or maybe just challenging them in a good way), not to mention that he developed the Recoder baton. In a similar inversion, despite Telser's nature, something of his blue secondary colour hints to me that he can't be so flat or featureless a character. There might be some way that his own arrogance and type of self-centredness might actually play for the better, given that he's the sole most authoritarian and powerful figure seen in Uprising, equal perhaps to Dyson, yet eclipsed only by CLU. As Tesler was assigned to Argon, and quite possessive of it (or his authority thereof, and thus also his own importance), and with Dyson hinting that Argon is somehow expendable, distant, and quaint, it leaves me curious if Tesler might have one day been a dark benefactor.
Of the Games, just the ability to view them at the Coliseum seems to be a strong privilege. Again, it leaves me wondering at the reactions amid the Programs thereof. At one time, it's also noted that 'Esteemed Statesmen of the Grid,' or visitors of that like, (or something to that end) must travel abroad to view the Games. The Games may serve a most important function or role in politics or prestige that we are not yet aware of. A priority of the Occupation's first advances in Argon was to construct the Coliseum. (Formerly lacking a Coliseum, it makes me wonder at what Argon Park may have been perceived as, or what that distinction may mean. Do other cities lack Coliseums?)
And yes, that idea for a comic of mine. There is one main idea, and a few side-plans. Only the main part is really contiguous, while the latter smaller ones are more an aspect of humour. Of the main part, I could say that it really lacks anything of full substance as storytelling goes; literally it's focus is over Link, and the small Programs of the Grid who are perceived to have no importance; it's literally about the subtle scale of the Occupation, and those who are powerless to do much over it. Most of the said comic idea developed due to my thoughts regarding Link's own perspectives, and also how interaction or regard over those would take place; this is complicated by two key factors: one, that Link seems to have a strange or incomplete perspective - simultaneously insightful, yet depicted as outwardly foolish or slow - second, there is a critical division to the perspectives that a Program would have, versus our own User-insights or patterns of thinking. To that end, I do have an OC (oh how I shudder at that term; a tic of mine) idea, one who was fashioned out of need for a Program with a reasonable proxy to my own manner of thinking, but also who would have the patience and incentive to deal with Link in the first place. The comic mostly explores the perspectives of Link, and also the oppressive nature of the Occupation and it's effects on the freedom of the Programs under it, how those are changing Argon, and other assorted difficulties of Programs' own nature under such conditions.
Secondary comic ideas are more for humour, or just as thought-exercises which lead along amusing lines. A significant challenge to me is actually how Link may very well think outside the box, or what shape his thinking might take due to aspects of his own odd programming. It's also a partial jest at myself for what I do or do not understand - and I could see Link easily relating to my lack of understanding…. In fact, a part of such ideas was kind of a counter for how many times in mind I've been 'pwned' by my own trail of thought relative to Link or his circumstance, 'Ping!' Unfortunately, I don't always have access to a notebook or my sketchbook to capture such moments. Though they'd range somewhere around 30 points or more, most I don't aptly recall. Ah, well… There's another point in his favour.
Ah, and before I forget, as to the discussions between yourself and I, I've had a joking idea to want to draw a quick comic of two Grid-mages summoning great walls of text, battling/debating like two clashing tidal waves. Amusingly, I could see my own power being channeled via Link's own obliviousness or supposed stupidity, and my lack of understanding of him thereof. It's literally powered by 'Oblivion.'
Thanks again for the thought, Nimbus! Hopefully it's been a good read. It's certainly quite the compendium of ideas. I'd almost say that referring to any of these essays on Twitter would be a way to inform of others of our perspectives in a more succinct matter, if required.
nimbus2224 Feb 4, 2014
Exactly. Just like all those involved with Tron have no idea of the massive plotting we Programs are capable of/are taking part in.
I totally see what you're saying about the differentiating, dash of colors most Programs have. Like with Kobol and Gult both having red as their "secondary color" and it appearing as they were derezzed. Some sources quickly generalize warm colors vs. cool colors vs. white as separating 'bad guys' and 'good guys' from Users. But I like that there are some discrepancies in what we see in Uprising. Whereas some designate white 'accents' as a symbol of Usership, Tron, who clearly bears white markings is definitely not a User. Which brings to light an implication that I found intriguing when you piqued my interest in Link a while ago. Link's 'accents' are also white, in correlation with his constructs. Therefore, the point you made about a patternization of 'color accents' and deeper-designation are probably correct.
I agree, the various cloth-like cloaks or overcoat-like Program clothing are very interesting. I sometimes wonder if all Programs are capable of 'constructing' (if that is indeed how these cloaks are made) a cloak or overcoat onto his or herself much like a helmet is constructed from the pre-existing suit. There also appear to be several armor types, mostly associated with the Security Programs. Ranging from 'Drone' Programs seem to also have those coat-tails and a rigid collar, Black Guards with their harder, more armored shoulder and chest areas, to the strange plating and ribbing of Tron's 'blacksuit'. Yet another thing I suddenly feel the need to categorize.
Ah yes, you are right. Paige's suit circuitry does change when she goes from medic to soldier. Perhaps Programs can change their suit or clothing as the time requires it? Or perhaps it evolves or strengthens itself over time due to growing need. Hmmm....
That is an interesting connection between Mara and Tesler. Or perhaps the markings in certain areas display a certain amount of intense usage of that area, which would correlate between both cases of Programs using their hands or arms excessively. But then again, don't they all use their arms excessively. (You can probably tell I am slowly draining my brain for the night. ) Haha! I thought the same thing with the mechanics and their overalls! I also cannot stop seeing those three vertical filaments on Able's suit as a tie. Likewise, I kinda saw the single emphasized or detailed, angular side of a Security Program's (or Clu's) suits as being almost like a military sash. With Tron's suit I cannot grasp anything though. He really does stick out like a sore thumb amidst all the Flynn-Programs. Almost alien-like in some ways; with the smooth, angular helmet and the subtly detailed armor plating....Very strange and very uncommon. It's something I keep in mind when beginning concepts of Yori. I figure that the Programs end up displaying the minds of their makers in more ways than physical similarities.
I kinda always figured that the different colors in Tesler's arms showed the amount of augmentations done to the limbs. But, yes, I agree it is strange to see these little differences in color scheme. I noted that Dyson also has a few green dots on his suit. I cannot tell if this is due to the wing-chute his is wearing or if it is indeed some strange discrepancy to the usual colors of his suit.
I agree, apart from the various rates of healing exhibited by Programs, and the simple first aid-ish sort of practices (removing foreign bodies, patching or covering, 'disinfecting' via handheld device) I assume everything else is done by disc.... literally. I have the feeling that only certain Programs can actually access the areas of the disc to repair damage.
Yes, I see what you mean. (I can't remember if I said this already) I kind of see the Games, especially the older games, as the Olympics. With Programs from each city competing for sport and non-lethally. Like the Club, I can see the Games as another way to 'hang out' on the Grid. I also feel like the number of Colosseums were fewer in number before the Occupation/Coup. I think as the Occupation gained strength, some Programs may have even volunteered to compete in order to wiggle their way into a position of power or safety withing Clu's forces. (Or to avoid Repurposing. ) Perhaps it is these Programs that become part of the Black Guard and then go on to compete further in the Games. 0__0 Continuing the cycle.
Your comic idea sounds awesome!! I can't wait to see it!! Yeah, I kinda dislike the term OC too. It always makes me think of OCD for some reason. I tend to just use "my character" whenever the need arises and then explain later. I've always felt like a great deal of Link's and some of the other Programs' appeal are because they are relatable to how we often feel. Though through banding together and staying true and taking action they become a force to be reckoned with. Haha! I love your relation to Link and his character. Too funny!
Haha! Grid-mages! Or perhaps like the Greybeards of Skyrim, blasting Ro Dahs! at each other...Poor Link scrambling around in confusion and panic beneath...somehow getting away completely unscathed! Your idea sounds hilarious!
Ah yes! It is always a good read, LucrataNexarii! I feel more cognitively engaged in these and other discussions than I do in some of my classes!! Of course! Feel free to link the comments or perhaps we can formulate a Journal of them, 'Uprising Notes/Thoughts', to contain all these wonderful topics.
LucrataNexarii Feb 5, 2014
I am only aware of three types of cube colors when an object or Program suffers derezolution. While Programs can fall into many differing secondary-colors and primary ones, the breakdown of deresolution into three types indicates some primary absolutes which are not necessarily overtly displayed: primarily the basis of any Program's core self (or core belief) - they believe in and willingly serve Users, or they oppose them; there is also the mysterious white-derezolution, which might indicate a truly neutral (but important/interconnected) 'system' component.
In any case, how this basis stratifies upward into the Program proper is clearly as diverse as Programs themselves are. Yet, the factor is that Programs either do serve the system and Users, or they do not, thus becoming in some manner corrupt. I do not know whether this Red.Blue status is overtly visible to Users - but as a basis of the User-Grid interface and awareness, one of my first interpretations of the TRON world is that Users should be able to actively and immediately identify who is a safe Program to approach or associate with; whether this is as visible on the Uprising system is not clear to me.
While primary circuit color is mostly clearly indicative of a Program's functions and overt allegiance (in most cases), and can clearly be reacted to accordingly, the secondary colors pose a perplexing problem. Their exact correlation is not so direct, though I have my own views of it, though they range more into abstractions and tendencies of personality, rather than more crucial or concrete inclinations of the Programs in question. They are also permutations of the primary colors, and the secondary ones, in terms of both the formal full color variety (color wheel) and an abstracted breakdown of the Grid proUser/Military/Hacker basis.
... Or, maybe my last post articulates all of that more clearly. Oh well.
I believe you misunderstand what I'd mentioned about Paige's circuitry changing; rather, I see her medical fatigues as literally that: a sort of 'professional exterior' such as seen on Gorn, Shaw (with variations, possibly designating 'researcher?'), Keller, and other Medical Programs possess. Exactly what these 'coats' are or how they relate to the Program isn't quite clear. I have the inkling that Tesler wears one (including that sense of 'military sash' to it's design, along with his shoulder pads and collar-area of his raiment possessing a notable thickness), as does Pavel (there is even a minor notch in it's lightline design that suggests a double-breasted jacket; his 'coat tails' are also more overt that it's some form of choice-of-attire; further, at certain angles, you can see the beginning of lightlines extending down from his neck toward his shoulders, hinting at some other design below.)
Whether these marks of station are exactly like objects (or at least able to be passed from one individual to another, or are able to be duplicated), or whether they are linked to the Program in question via some means, is not clarified. Nor, such as in the case of an 'Anonymity Cloak' such as that which Able had worn, is it known if they'd still possess their full functions or not when donned or exhibited by one Program versus another. (Unfortunately I have no way to check on Keller's use of such a cloak, and whether it's shown to be exhibited from her former Medic-attire, or what becomes of it during her conversation with Beck.)
I also agree in that Tron's appearance is subtly unique. I look forward to any designs you've worked with, and any more views you have to share on the matter. I certainly have my own intuitive view in how I 'read' lightlines and their implications of a Program or his/her propensities. That also includes how I 'read' Mara's design, or Telser's (and their parallel), or Zed's unique chest-marks... In fact, the degree of 'uniqueness' found amid the Programs of Able's Garage is a little uncanny. I have my own thoughts to that as well, especially if one considers that said Programs were all (presumably) line/function-generated - that is, that they were all Resolved as a functional Garage unit. ... Which also plays into some of my head-canon concerning Link's oddities (and Able's tolerance of him).
I also agree with your thoughts over the Games. As much as they'd taken a vicious turn, it seems that many Programs likewise oriented to it, or played along, in order to display a sense of loyalty to the activity and changes themselves, possibly as a factor of safety, or possibly esteem. Likely both.
Ideally, I'd sooner not involve a character of my own formulation in my ideas, but there just isn't really any Program at all who seems to relate to Link, or have any patience for his company. Does he even have any meaningful friends he confides in? The factor alone that Beck and Zed are utterly floored that Mara so much as asked him for help paints a rather dark picture for him... After all, presumably even the relatively young Programs of the Garage are actually many a Cycle old; that's a lot of time for all kinds of experience to arise, especially considering Mechanic work and it's necessary bond to the pulse and life of a city, including accidents, new vehicle models, climate circumstance, or any number of things; there's a huge cross-section there for someone to somehow need his help or some observation at an important time. And yet, Link's helpful involvement in anything just doesn't seem to have arisen. Personally, I find that quite sad.
But, at the same time, I can see some of his qualities as actually being an advantage. While the main comic idea of mine doesn't involve any real action or complex plot at all, it is meant to contend with the nature of oppression, including paranoia and strife (individual or societal) among Programs in a Grid being changed due to CLU's influence. But, it's also there to hopefully show a deeper side to Link, and some fundamentals of the strength of many Programs. How to stitch that into a workable progression is another matter.
Further, there is a side-matter there I intend for Beck to take involvement in, such as his observations of others developing or pushing his sense of responsibility, including him carrying finer observations of Argon's Programs and dynamics to Tron.... In fact, all of that is a side-idea in itself, simply (and partially jokingly) titled 'O.I.C.:' Occasional Implied Conversation, but also a play on the common acronym of 'Oh, I see.'
I guess I could just list the total set of planned projects or ideas so far:
- The original continuity-based idea (no real name)
- 'L.E.D.,' Formerly 'Link's Drinks', comic involving just that: Link sitting down to a drink. An exercise in odd/amusing perspectives.
- 'O.I.C.' a short set involving Beck and Tron, and Beck coming to his own realizations, respect for himself, and for Tron, and vice-versa.
- 'Quadruple-Redundancy' mostly a set involving my own self-humor, mostly relating to Link and my own thought processes
- '4-th wall' actually a short joking set involving three wayward Sentries/Guards' view on Telser. Mostly for humor.
There are various other uncategorized ideas and exercises, but that seems to be the gist of it. I think. Overall, ideas and matter is so diverse and oft-complicated that I rather get lost. Oi. No wonder I'm halfway through this sketchbook already.
nimbus2224 Feb 9, 2014
Colors linked (lol, catching that pun once more. ) to personalities is a very interesting idea. I'd have to agree with you on that one. It is a hard thing to determine. I feel like we were just beginning to understand it a bit better with Uprising. Just little details that were made overt throughout the show. All we needed is a few more examples of personality and coloration to form a solid hypothesis.
Ooops! You're right. Hmmm, I see what you're saying. Other than disguise, or even Military affiliation, these cloaks and sashes might be for weather or temperature-related purposes. The fact that the Programs do seem to respire, especially the misting of the breath in Gorn's (for some reason) chillled room, perhaps they also require a specific temperature for maintaining homeostasis? (But then why doesn't Tron and Beck's breath fog in the snow-strewn Oulands?) I'm a little confused too. Or maybe it's a fashion thing? I can't use Tron as an example because making a fashion statement is the last thing he's interested in, but like Mara or Paige....?
I had to look that one up myself too. Keller's 'Anonymity Cloak' appears to be triggered by her use of the 'drug' that masked her appearance. Once that wore out, her cloak disappeared. I assume that other Programs' cloaks 'unrezz' like Tesler's. But then, I also recall Paige throwing her cloak off, where it 'unrezzed' or something.
I'd have to admit, I am also somewhat stumped by all the diversity within the Garage. But in Link's case, I think this diversity goes deeper. I consider the neglect he faces at the Garage to literally be because of his relative newness to the place. With that being said, I'd also like to (spoil) say that he is not a Mechanic. There are too many discrepancies in my mind as to why he is unable to do some of the tasks of the Mechanics, such as building/modding a functioning cycle. Yet Able continues to 'shelter' him (mark, shelter
Your comic sounds absolutely fascinating and funny! I cannot wait to see them!! So many great ideas! Haha! Half a sketchbook already!? That's awesome! Keep it up!
LucrataNexarii Feb 12, 2014
Ah, yes, 'Link' showing up unexpectedly in general conversation and common terminology... It's amusing how often that happens, once one is geared to detect it. I've had the humorous idea of Link in a Splinter-Cell-esque suit type - Infiltratin' ur conversationz, messin' wit ur comprehenshun.
I admit that my ideas over certain mild correlations of secondary-circult color are rather abstracted or vague, but this is due to two reasons: 1) that Programs are not inclined to discriminate (or discern) between one another in ranks or activities due to circuit color, and 2) there aren't really any common/main characters who have a matching circuit color by which to provide an in-depth parallel.
But, what also comes to mind is that Kobol had originally altered his secondary circuit colors while at his pawn shop. Understandably, as he evidently had plenty of underground dealings, having a mildly different appearance might distance him from danger from more overt rivals... Then again, the exact competitive/intimidation nature of Grid criminals isn't something I'd quite expect to fully parallel the organizational principles and dynamics of User-crime gangs. However, my true secondary thought was this: is having a cool-color hue good for business? Rather in the subliminal way that music is said to partially or narrowly affect sales or customer conduct in some areas, does circuit color have some given effect? (Does it only apply under certain conditions or functions?)
As to condensation/respiration, my immediate thought goes along two points. 1) That the Grid is a simulated Newtonian reality, not a complete all-factors simulated reality; the latter would be inefficient. By that, I mean to say that many effects may be simplified; there is generally seen to be no dust, erosion (in urban/developed zones), or other such small-scale general entropic effects as a good portion of our User-world efforts go to managing. The Grid is meant to function, and in that, I see it as necessarily being efficient along certain lines. 2) (aside from Gorn's workplace/laboratory seeming like an obscure tribute to Blade Runner, recall the cold room where one man was working on Replicant parts - or something to that effect) Condensation is only seen in areas involving direct effect over Program memory or fine-scale alteration or influence-effects; the Repurposing tubes and Gorn's work area are the only places I recall seeing condensation.
Clearly Programs don't follow User metabolisms, fine physical structure (or representation thereof), or life-processes. However, the parallel or overlap of certain features may have different meanings or contexts dependent on as-yet unknown factors. But, that would touch on something of the absolute-nature or abstract nature of the Grid, on Flynn's own choice of giving Programs some of the vital factors that would make them seem more like what we associate on a nearly instinctive level (and general sensory/comprehension congruence) with literally 'living, breathing beings,' and also on the possible factors of the Grid being partially or entirely oriented around the inherent anthropomorphization of the human mind in comprehending and mentally translating information subjectively or cognitively.
Thus far, I don't have a particular view on whether Programs necessarily have a basic (temperature based) homeostasis (yet alone one as we'd quite know or consider it). I'm of the opinion that cities generally have a stabilized climate, but one that rapidly breaks down and descends into more volatile Outlands weather, which seems to be at least significantly cold to generate snow. Program suits might be sufficiently protective to keep them from suffering discomfort or possibly even long-term effects, but there's no evidence that I know of any danger at all to them in the Outlands aside from the obvious ones of treacherous terrain, Gridbugs, or energy-depletion. Regardless of external conditions so far as they've been shown, Programs don't seem to suffer from fluctuations in temperature, so far as I can discern any variation.
I'm of the opinion that Programs are 'cold blooded' in that they simply don't generate anything comparable to body-heat, unless it was somehow required. There is simply no reason to expend the energy; the Grid already maintains an optimal temperature for them (in urban areas); again, a step in favour of efficiency of energy use.... Though, I am aware that the thought does go slightly against the view that Programs were made to seem as close as possible to living people as we'd know our fellow human beings. If you, say, put your hand on someone's shoulder, or held their hand, you'd be accustomed to feeling at least a few degrees of difference in temperature. Lacking that literalized human touch would render Programs slightly 'uncanny.' (Then again, both overt and subtle comprehensions and reactions between Programs and Users is likely a point of diverse debate. I assume that it'd be best that, at least to a degree, Programs are seen as people - and thus garnering all the same basic respect, compassion, consideration, and conduct one human being would have for another person.)
Considering whether cloaks, sashes, or any other objects might have a further function, that is a neat thought, and entirely likely or possible. But, like many constructs of the Grid, even innocuous objects can have a strong degree of hidden functions or potentials.
Of your ideas, my immediate reactions is: :woohoo: (<<--da emoticon) Pardon that I don't have a more comprehensive regard, but I believe that the emoticon speaks for me rather well. Moreover that it sounds like it'll involve an appreciable degree of Link (at which I'll gladly joke at myself and say that I've gained a sentimental inclination toward the poor Program, approximated as 'D'aww!'). However, it doesn't surprise me that we seem to have arrived at a similar conclusion: that his (in)effective level of operation at the Garage is so prominent that there must be some other factor at work, as if his capacities incline him toward some other element of history or function.
I can only speak of my own ideas from the standpoint of 'I don't work on it hard enough,' and 'There's plenty more developmental work left to do.' Although I enjoy a good debate or exchange of information, I'm rarely satisfied at all with my own work (or process/production rate thereof), especially coupling that with my inwardly-melancholic personality... But, I've learned how to find a certain creative slant or advantage in that as well. So, it seems to balance well.
nimbus2224 Mar 7, 2014 Hobbyist General Artist
I absolutely broke out laughing for about ten seconds at that image and the attached dialogue. Too funny!
Oh my gosh you're right! Now that you mention it, I know exactly what you're talking about with Kobol! I can't believe I watched that scene a million times and never noticed the difference! Even when I could recognize Kobol as the gang leader in the alley fight. Great catch! Your comments about color changes made me think back to a few of the instances that I was able to note irregular color changes in Tron. In Uprising his suit-lights change from white to orange during the lightcycle chase through Purgos. Then, his lightlines also change when he gets a little emotional around Yori. Perhaps they change through emotion? But then again, Tron is an outlier and I probably shouldn't be comparing him to Flynn-Programs.
That would be an interesting concept: Blue or cool colors are good for business. I also thought that it might have something to do with the wanted boards. They seem to take note of coloration I believe. That's a really good question though. I'll have to think more on this one.
Ahhh, good call. I wonder what it is with altering Programs that requires lower temperatures? Perhaps it slows certain rates down or makes them weary and easier to manipulate (Tron seemed very weakened in the tube, apart from his wounds)? Kinda like how computers get really slow when they reach a certain temperature. I'd have to agree with you there about the complexity and differences between Programs and Users. I was thinking recently that perhaps the 'breathing' had something to do with speech or circulation of energy? Oxygen is basically a fuel for us and electricity in a vacuum doesn't function. But you're right, the 'breathing' is probably not like anything we use it for.
Thank goodness I have such reliable people like yourself to fall back to when my mind goes bonkers with stories! You're description of Programs is perfect and completely convincing to me! Can you believe that I was heading towards scenes with Programs 'freezing' (though I am still clutching dearly to a somewhat comical drowning scene )?! = My mind on black tea two weeks ago. I thank you for reeling me in from the disastrous ambitions of a tea-induced, scene splurge. I've noted your much more sound hypothesis for reference and mention later when the refined scenes appear. ;D
Hurray!! Go Link! I am very relieved that you find this both logical and to your liking. I think you're the first person I kinda spoiled it to. But you are the expert on Link so I figured that it was a wise thing to run the notion past you. The idea of Link being an outsider seemed natural to me, and like you said, pretty logically sound. I also like the fact that he is now placed directly in the line of sight of a Program that can probably help him find out who and what he is (and what happened). The way that falls into place so easily, I couldn't help but make it part of the plot. That's good that you have found a balance. It's always great to hear from someone who is not only an artist and knowledgeable in that sense, but someone who can present logical hypotheses and theories. It keeps my crazed ideas in check.
LucrataNexarii Mar 15, 2014
Naturally, at times, I cannot help but to share my humor. As you can tell, much of my more spontaneous ideas revolve around finding a way to categorize or use my humor effectively. Hopefully some day those will come to light as an amusing material to share with others.
While speaking of that removed scene from the original Tron, there are many things to ponder over it, overtly or subtly. In this case, whether color-change in circuitry can, at some times, be involuntary due to emotion - I imagine, though, that it might also be regulated due to isolation (in that reflexive showing of certain emotions in a social/group seeing might place a Program at a disadvantage, while a one-to-one setting of mutual honestly/openness differs markedly; this brings up conventions of communication).
That aside, my thought relating to circuit-color in that type of setting was this: first, the circuit-color is said to be purple, but I find it more of a magenta; this is important in that in and of the electromagnetic spectrum, magenta does not exist (though it's clearly a component of the Colour Wheel of Colour theory), it is a physiological or psychological perception only. Purple, being also a combination of red and blue, combines along the same lines to present a wide breadth of abstracts.... Some follow, in no general order: 1) for a system like the Grid, there will inevitably (even if just statistically, via errors or corruptions) be those that come to work against it; an inevitable existence of 'Red,' 'Not-of-the-System,' thus one can ask "As sentient beings, what is the state of peace? If conflict arises inevitably, is there a force that can also heal or bond, inevitably?" 2) If, on the electromagnetic/visible spectrum is a continuum (and Programs are also a part of a continual existing physical-law/construct process), and magenta is a purely a psychological perception of sentient beings, what does this reflect about the preciousness of consciousness, awareness, and sentient mind, to Programs? Is this 'Existence Duality' also somehow inherent to their understandings? Is the Program 'color of love/care/understanding/intimacy' profound in this link? 3) What does the implied or underlying 'unison-perception' indicated by magenta speak about the effects of trust and close bonds among Programs? If they can share information, ideas, drives, emotions, and other factors of mind so completely through individual trust and choice, what does this also say of how they can work with new, spontaneous ideas? That is: If ideas and 'consciousness' spread rapidly in User culture in so many ways, cultivated often in private through reflection, generally shared with only one or few others, how is this process amplified for Programs?
(But, enough of that wandering/wondering.)
Relating to blue/cool circuit hues being good for business: given that blue is essentially the color of the Grid/System as operating smoothly, or properly as intended, could it be that it's 'subliminal' effect might also be just that: something operating smoothly and to the operator's benefit?
As to cold and memory-alteration being related, here is one reaction of mine: Generally computers or electronics are said to operate more efficiently if kept in cool conditions. While it's difficult to gauge what the colder temperatures may mean for memory/alteration-specific settings, my first thought is that it essentially implies 'removing' the Program from running at normal speed - that is, not in that it weakens them or makes them more docile, but rather that consciousness seems to be an artefact of the Grid, and it may require differing circumstance to fully alter it in deep ways.... So, in order to avoid tampering with the continuity of consciousness (or just to do so efficiently), it requires to be 'sped-up,' while outside time passes normally; they are 'removed' from the flow of the system, whereby they can be altered at will. Further: Repurposing tubes kind of isolate the Program entirely, in a self-contained environment (I see this also as important); once that containment is broken, consciousness/state is reset with all underlying information put in place as-is. While memory alteration, such as via a Disc or CodeWorm, does not require suspending the individual Program's consciousness, Repurposing seemingly does, even involving that 'sacred' position of holding one's disc above oneself (that brings up it's own questions). A Program does not appear to be conscious during that alteration-period, but clearly something is being done.
Considering Program breathing, I'd see it first as a relatability or 'humanizing' aspect applied to Programs, but my other thought is that if Programs have a sort of homeostasis of natural rhythms of living-process, breathing would be just another; if 'electropulse' such as seen in Able's surface-scrapes is the most immediate type of existence-basis, breathing is at least one level higher. To clarify: breathing is an expression of a link to that process; only so much can be expressed so rapidly, and one is using some of their existing-process to communicate ... Well, that doesn't exactly express what I mean. Let me try again: words presumably require air as a medium, while breathing-air is a life-process - hence you have an activity that links a Program to two three tiers of what is essential to the Grid: as an environment, as a network of communicating, sentient beings, and also as an individual-existence in and of oneself. Well, I still don't feel I've touched on the intuitive-thing I seem to pick at in my long replies here. Let me tiredly try again (ERROR: this unit may need more tea. WARNING: tea may also multiply article length by 0.7 to 3.6 times current length.) Words tend to be spoken with a syllabic rapidity which matches the general firing of language-areas of the brain; that this parallel of 'interpersonal network' exists among human beings is fascinating - could a similar self/gestalt/Grid network exist among Programs, 'humanized' in part as being seen and known to us as breathing?
(I seem to see the Grid as a most holistic, interconnected, and fascinating thing, indeed. )
But, I cannot help but to express for the time: as much as this one current entry has had to do with consciousness, awareness, and intentional focus ... What of obliviousness, unconscious-spontaneity, and lack of awareness as it's own nigh-objective force on the Grid? That is: a nod to Link himself, in how, if one is a master of elements of how Programs operate and act under certain conditions, is it possible to make an 'agent' out of such a hapless, seemingly-helpless Program? Is this 'cutting edge' of a different/chaotic paradigm also a useful factor to those who have a deep knowledge, or at least sufficient knowledge of Program-society and goings-on? Are there possible meta-system curiosities to be found via such absences of consciousness-effects and other hypothetical matter of the Grid? Invariably, those would be far more curious and much more entangled, and thus even more difficult to trace out of such a universe and hypothetical-objects. But, as deep as one may go in the light, the opposites in the shadow can be just as compelling. The Grid is very much light and dark - and I can say similarly to reason and madness.
For now, I can only say - as I seem to say often - that I am honored that we can essentially collaborate on ideas and notions, and thus refine each of our sets of ideas and understandings accordingly. From our cooperation we get art and fresh material, alike!
nimbus2224 Mar 18, 2014 Hobbyist General Artist
I really like you're thoughts on the 'colors of the Grid'. You asked all the right questions. I especially liked your thoughts on how cool tones seem to be the 'base color' or the 'normal' color for the Grid to represent it's proper functioning. I would also like to add (and you've probably thought of this already) that this idea can be applied to the cities. They all seem to have begun as white-blue in their light accents but then rose into different variations that seemingly depend on which 'entity' governs over them. (Purgos becoming a greenish-purple hue and Tron City becoming yellow.)
Aye, tea is an incremental part of any discussion. Though I'm drinking some hot chocolate right now, I had been drinking some good Tetley black tea for the entire day. I drink tea when I game, when I write my clone wars novels, when I draw Requiem, when I watch movies....I'm surprised my teeth haven't turned like green or something.
Great points! I would have to agree with all of them. It's like the Grid has both a hive-mind and free will. Very confusing combination, but I suppose it is meant to somewhat mirror our world. We all kind of have this innate feeling of purpose, that we have to do something and do it well. But at the same time we also tend towards unpredictableness, not necessarily in the negative sense, but the fact that we have an ability to open ourselves up to new ideas and notions that we often wonder "where did that come from? 0_0". Perhaps it has something to do with the individuals around the Programs. New ideas and behaviors picked up from others. I see this as a sort of survival instinct: Learning new techniques or from other's mistakes/experiences in order to survive.
I would otherwise perhaps describe Link's behavior and awkwardness due to missing memories/inappropriate designation as an Engineer. Thus what would originally be simply individual will/expression becomes seemingly inept behavior per designation. Another speculation of mine that Link is not a Mechanic.
I agree! Though my brain is somewhat lackluster today, I can still attest that these discussions are not only helpful in my art and the construction of Requiem, but also in just general art creation. I am also honored that like Programs we work together to maintain and improve the system and our knowledge of it.
LucrataNexarii Mar 26, 2014
Thank you. Though most are quick to try and frame the Grid from a reference of how a computer would operate (and I don't deny how that has plenty of legitimacy and use in the concept,) there is a curious division in the world-building. As you can gather, the one most fascinating thing is that the Grid in some ways seems spontaneous and self-generating in it's obscure qualities, yet alone how it's internal environment is formed and held relative to conscious, sentient beings (or even things upward toward that scale - or maybe parallel - of functional, aware entities).
But, beyond that, my thought is that the Grid, relative to Users, must be in some way functional, and I feel that circuit color must play a role in that: a vital part of the User-interface with the Grid's Programs. Clearly the primary circuit colors indicate immediate alignments of function, and would pose a clear sign to any User of that Program's state.. Essentially a factor that might let you look at a group, and see in part, in advance, how they might work together, or what useful personality traits their primary and secondary color may tell of them. The secondaries, as we know, are much less clear - but perhaps their abstracts may provide somewhat more useful, nuanced information about any given Program to a User, or to other Programs - though the level to which each can intuit accurately the qualities, functions, adeptness, and other factors of an individual may vary significantly.
However, clarifying somewhat, secondary circuit colors may provide a quick-reference of a Programs' individual deeper tendencies... Perhaps such as blue for 'System/Whole/Absolute Oriented' (even if said system is highly authoritative and absolutist, such as with Telser; but the inverse would be Beck, who is highly inclined toward other Programs' safety and freedom, also a vital part of the system), red for 'Individualistic/Competitive' (highly resourceful, if not slightly arrogant and challenging to others in a good way, such as Bodhi; or very resource-survival driven and potentially damaging, such as Bartik/Hopper or Kobol), yellow for 'Function-Driven,Intensive(Leadership?)' (a positive example being Mara, emotionally headstrong but clear and with much incentive and leadership - inclining others to action; the obverse is somewhat more difficult, the color yellow being rather rare, now that I look, the only example being Shaw, who was very much a developer/hacker of existing or new technology, very driven and self-absorbed, but to what degree that is rendered form Mod Disc 'aftereffect' ** is not clear). All other secondaries are a blend of these three colors, but in various ways. It would be a rather long list, but maybe a useful one; I should explain my breakdown sometime.
** Now, as to that Mod Disc, before I forget: in some ways it seems to behave more like a 'cognitive virus' more than a virus outright. Then again, taking into account it's regeneration, that brings up an important issue. Moreover, considering how affecting a 'host' might be dragged into the equation.
Also, as to the topic of viruses: somewhat literally characterized though they've been, Uprising seems to introduce some curious sub-types or extensions of the concept and existence of viruses... Moreover that they consistently seem to have 'living' or liquid/organic effects, such as in the false disc that Beck had mistakenly tried to don. But, although they can as easily have data-effects, such as the same disc affecting Tron's hideout, or disease-like effects such as in Tron's illness (though it's remarked at one point as being a 'safeguard modification' by Dyson, and yet is also called a virus outright - a curious indistinction?), there is also the factor of Gridbugs and Codeworms - one certainly being from errors in the system, and the latter having a strange origin, yet odd similarity..... This brings me to the thought: what is the 'upward' scale of 'existence' (specifically-coded awareness or processing capability, versus spontaneous-generation) for constructs? Or perhaps, what it's it's horizontal spread and breadth of types?
I ask this mostly because of one odd thought as to (illegal)mods (such as Telser's improved artificial arms), or potentially-destabilizing mods (such as the Mod Disc)... The distinction might be important.
The actual instance that made me question it was linking two thoughts (there's 'Link' again, sneaking in and sabotaging things by sheer bad luck whilst trying to be stealthy). The first thought being over Beck's false Renegade disc, and how it had organic properties in it's execution. The second is during the 'pilot' episode, where Tesler's arms are severed, and drop away with a 'fabric' or soft flutter or response to the air - a solid construct, which behaves like an angular, artificial weapon under all other circumstances, is seen to exhibit fluid qualities.... My regard as to Tesler's prosthetic arms and this topic in general (of General? Yeah, I'm tired) is that they are coded/'solid'/construct-objects which are interfaced to or an extension of a living Program.... There is some intuitive factor there that I just can't quite place, but the spectrum possibly implied in weighing each of those instances provides some curious possibilities.
For the moment, perhaps I should let this rest. I will bear in mind other possible topics, including of Link and the secondary 'color' of white and it's intuitive implication (to me).
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